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Are these the two dumbest recruiters in history?

Sometimes you have to wonder at how ignorant some people can be.

I know, not a nice way to start, but wait till you hear this.

This encounter happened a few years ago, but something similar happened last week, and it is so common and so stupid, I have to vent. I was coming back to Sydney from two weeks of work in London. I stopped over in Bangkok, and had two hours in the Qantas lounge there, doing what all the other business dudes were doing. Laptop, maybe the newspaper (and in my case, definitely the Shiraz. You can’t lose on a 24-hour flight stopover. It’s either evening where you are going to, or where you are coming from :).

Now the seats in the Qantas lounge are reasonably close together, and it is impossible NOT to hear what the people sitting behind you are saying, even if you are trying hard not to listen in. And, after a week of difficult conversations in Europe, I had no desire to listen in to anyone. In fact, I had my earphones on listening to the melodic tunes of Boy and Bear for most of the time I was there.

So there I was sending emails and listening to music, when the wait-person in the lounge asks me whether I would like a coffee. I take my earphones out to talk to her, and am immediately struck by the loud conversation of two guys, about one metre behind me. They are talking about business. No surprise there. But the first phrase I hear is ‘Temp Margins’. Can I help myself but listen in?

The conversation continues. They are talking loudly. Aggressively even. I could have heard every word if I was ten seats away, let alone one. And what words they were!

In a few minutes, I learn these two are senior executives of a global recruitment company. But there is more. Their business competes directly with mine (at the time) in several locations. The conversation moves from current revenue to temp margins and then on to which countries are doing particularly badly (Thanks for that boys, FFS!). Then the conversation gets personal. A manager of a particular location is named, and described as a “spineless tosser”. ( I report the conversation verbatim). A second person is mentioned, by name, and one of the men suggests he needs to be ‘boned’, a callous Australian slang word for ‘fired’. Then things really start to hot up. Two people are discussed, both of whom I know personally (through business) and one of whom applied for a job with my company less than 12 months ago. A profit figure for the Australian and Asian businesses is talked about, and budgeted profit for next calendar year is debated. They talk about competitors, and at one point, I thought my own company was going to be discussed. And there I am, the EO of a competitor, almost part of the conversation!

It’s truly amazing, isn’t it? These same dudes probably agonise over having all their staff on legally binding restraint clauses. They will pay lawyers thousands to chase down ex-employees who ‘abuse company information’ and yet there they are, in a business lounge, talking loudly and arrogantly about the most sensitive of information. Even if I had not been a recruiter, I would have found that conversation extraordinary and irresponsible.

And so it’s a cautionary tale for all of us. Not only senior managers. Many years ago, my own business (Recruitment Solutions) was located at 275 George Street in Sydney. That building had 12 levels,(Its currently a hole in the ground I noticed when I walked past last week) and my company occupied two of them. And yet there were ten other recruitment companies in that building!

What other industry has such a concentration of competitors? And even in those days, I was amazed how you could get in the lift (elevator) and hear indiscreet consultants prattling on about clients, candidates and often, colleagues. How immature. How irresponsible.

In our business, our stock in trade is not only talent. It’s information!

Information is power, and so is trust.

Abuse one and you destroy the other

  • Posted by Greg Savage
  • On September 25, 2009
  • 30 Comments
Tags: discretion, Management Skills, Trusted Advisor

30 Comments

Carly Eriksen
  • Sep 25 2009
  • Reply
It's surprising how often this happens in airport lounges. It's like people think that no-one in the lounge will know who they are discussing because they are not in their home town, forgetting that people travel. And particularly in Australia, the industry is small enough that you will know at least a couple of the same people, not to mention the sharing of sensitive coporate information in a public setting. That is just callous and irresponsible.
Paula Lee Tuveson
  • Sep 25 2009
  • Reply
I'm thinking these guys were intoxicated or on something. This behavior is far too irrational to chalk it up to stupidity and arrogance.
Greg Savage
  • Sep 25 2009
  • Reply
I would say you are spot on Lee. Whisky it looked like. And plenty of it I think. But no excuse really Greg
Rob Williams
  • Sep 26 2009
  • Reply
It would have been extraordinarily difficult not to turn and say something. I agree with Lee - too irrational to chalk it up to plain stupidity but certainly not arrogance finely blended with their favorite cocktail. There was definitely some "machismo" going on here.
Gareth Jones
  • Sep 26 2009
  • Reply
Unfortunately they are representative of a significant number of people in recruitment industry, particulalry here in the UK so its no wonder we have a general image problem. It's this kind of approach that directly influences clients general negative response to recruitment consultancies. However, there is an upside - with people like this in the industry, the benchmark they set is very low so its not difficult to raise the bar and outperform them on the criteria that matter. I also believe that you reap what you sow and that at some stage the future this conversation will come back to haunt them.
Keith Robinson
  • Sep 27 2009
  • Reply
Greg, airport lounges seem to create a no-one can hear me mentality plus agree with Gareth a possible UK problem too. But what worries me is if they say this in public "what the hell are they saying in private". Also agree re recruitment villages, have worked in many countries and always seems that "recruiters need to feel the need to be near each other" maybe it's easy to "get the wagons circled. Next time you are in the UK please look me up, regular on Bills show and just launched a monthly RecruiterCast web show at www.careersiteadvisor.com Regards Keith Robinson
Jayne Johnson
  • Nov 30 2009
  • Reply
Very good post. Recruitment is a small world .. no doubt these guys will pay the price (and so they should!)
Jane Kennelly
  • Feb 20 2010
  • Reply
Hi Greg Similar experience was had in an Auckland cafe recently... an eye opener. Made me smile actually. :-) Also recommend companies operate a '2 block rule' post client appointments - as in, do not talk about the just completed client appointment for at least two blocks. I recall one client telling me of a situation where a 'frank' conversation was overheard in an elevator (by a senior employee of the just visited company) between the two recruiters who had just completed their visit. with that company. Not only unprofessional - just plain dumb.
Andy Headworth
  • Feb 26 2010
  • Reply
Greg, Wow! And I thought just hearing a recruiter talk about her day, clients and candidates on the train was bad enough!! In all seriousness though, it does go to show that people just have no idea who could actually be listening to a conversation!! I hope the 'info' they gave you can be utilised accordingly!
Russell Fairbanks
  • Aug 17 2010
  • Reply
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. I've seen far too many examples of 'leaders' rising to the top in our industry and yet they don't possess the most basic of skills to run a leading business. I'm sure they wouldn't survive in the resources or financial services sectors... What does continue to surprise me though is the shareholders who put up with 'leaders' like this in their businesses... they should be run out of town. Perhaps this in part explains the poor price/ earnings ratios and valuations of some of the global recruitment companies? It reminds me of a similar situation a few years back. A competitor of mine bragging in the pub about a large deal his company had landed with a certain client I hadn't come across. Unlucky for him the deal wasn't quite across the line allowing us to nip in and close it before they had any idea. The client went on to be one of our top clients for many years... I never did get around to buying that GM a drink... perhaps a large whisky would be appropriate...
Gary
  • Nov 8 2010
  • Reply
I have made a total of three placements due to a conversation I eavesdropped on whilst travelling to work on the Manly JetCat. These two guys mentioned the company who was hiring and the manager. Idiots. I turned to my old friend Google, got the manager's name, called him and I had what he needed. A few months later I even told him how I had orginally found out about his roles and he laughed out loud!
harry fowler
  • Dec 7 2010
  • Reply
This issue is not exclusive to our industry. I've been in many a situation where I've heard business information that should have remained private. Sometimes I've acted on it, other times I've let it go. It's a fact of life that people are loose with their tongue when they're more vulnerable. If other people's stupidity has resulted in you winning business, then great , well done. What's of more importance is explaining to your own staff the implications of their own actions and ensuring that their behaviour doesn't come back to haunt them or their business, especially as it's coming up to Christmas. Don't talk shop in public and if you have to, be extremely discreet. Gathering from the responses above, if you're indiscreet then you're in for a bit of a wake up call.
Gerry crispin
  • Apr 22 2011
  • Reply
You raise a stereotype of a braggadocio segment of the industry that raises questions about how secure any sensitive search they might be doing would be kept.
Cameron Heaney
  • Apr 20 2012
  • Reply
I am always amazed at the amount of sensitive information recruiters will talk about in public. Just walk down Collins Street in Melbourne or Pitt Street in Sydney and follow any pair of professionals carrying compendiums, you will most likely hear all about the client they are about to / have just visited and sensitive details about the job they are about to pick up / have just been briefed on.
Eva
  • Apr 20 2012
  • Reply
Love it. They wonder why the term Cowboy was ever coined in Recruitment. Duh! Made me laugh though...you never, ever know who you will be sitting next to. I had an experience flying from Paris to Singapore. There in the 'parents with children may board first line" was a familiar face that had me intrigued. Now I had never dealt with this 'client' directly, only through HR at a well known law firm, but recognised their face from their who's who of Partners on their website. I was even currently doing work for this client and had attempted to recruit a staff member for this Partner in the past. Sure enough, as I was lining up to use the facilities 'aft', I spotted this person's nanny, got talking in a roundabout way and sure enough, bingo - it was the high ranking Partner I assumed it was. Luckily I'm professional enough never to talk openly about my clients EVER in a public setting but just goes to show, you never, ever know who may be standing next to or sitting one row behind you on a 12.5 hour flight......
Paul heath
  • Apr 20 2012
  • Reply
Yes I hear things like this every day on the train - people thinking that mobile phone conversations are private. Dumb. I switch mine off.
Rob
  • Apr 30 2012
  • Reply
All recruiters are wankers. But ehre's another approach to your answer - do you ever ask candidates to describe their ethics? How they approach situations where their ethics are called upon? Reflect upon your ethics, you were quite happy to eavesdrop on a conversation containing information you knew to be confidential. what does that say about YOUR ethics?
    Greg Savage
    • Apr 30 2012
    • Reply
    Interesting question Rob, although I am not sure you would really care about my answer, given your charming opening sentence. The definition of the word 'eavesdrop' is to "listen SECRETLY to the conversations of others." I was in an open lounge. I was there first. They could clearly see me. They knew I, and many others, could hear them There was no eavesdropping taking place. I am supremely comfortable in my ethics, on this occasion, and generally.
Ruth
  • Jul 18 2012
  • Reply
Two totally unprofessional, arrogant people caught up in their own self importance. Disgusting behaviour and no excuses.
Neil Ward
  • Jul 19 2012
  • Reply
This isn't an uncommon thing and unfortunately it's people like this that give Recruitment companies a bad name. Over my years in business I've learned never to discuss business matters in a public setting because of this exact reason... You never know who is around. Well done on the discretion for not revealing who these fools were.... But sadder is the fact that it tarnishes an industry area that already struggles with reputation issues because of inexperienced employees... Or at least that's my experience from talking to people.
Sussexmatt
  • Aug 7 2012
  • Reply
All too familiar in airport lounges, certainly not restricted to the recruitment industry at all. I reckon I've heard enough people in finance having discussions to be able to get away with insider trading. I'd imagine, knowing a fair few people in the rec industry that there was a degree of drink fuelled one-upmanship going on in that conversaion as there usually is. Shame really, always worry about who may be sitting behind you when discussing work.!
Shirley
  • Oct 12 2012
  • Reply
Some years ago there was a training video produced by John Cleese following the idiom of Loose Lips Sink Ships. I used to have an historical poster in my office with the very same phrase on it Shirley
Esranur kaygin
  • Jan 16 2013
  • Reply
I love these people! I have so much deals thanks to other recruiters who didnt hide there clients name in a job spec, or talk about info during dinners with friends (they didnt know I was a headhunter) or talking loud in bars. Thank you!!!
Doug Flatimus
  • Feb 20 2013
  • Reply
Great story, Greg, and an al too regular occurrence, especially in Asia amongst expats or visitors from western markets to Asia. It really is cringeworthy behaviour, but I'm with Esranur above, these guys prove a Darwinian theory and leave space for those who behave a little more discreetly to make really decent livings, so all power to their egos and arrogance. On a lighthearted note, may I take a punt that the other guy (not the Australian) was English? 'Tosser' is not common amongst the Antipodeans. Being a Pom (I think) I assume you left that point out for nationalistic reasons! ; )
    Greg Savage
    • Feb 20 2013
    • Reply
    Thanks Doug.. to your questions Yes, the guy was English No I am not English I was born in Cape Town, SA and moved to Australia at age 21.. where I have lived for the rest of my years -apart from 2 in London in the eighties :) Best Greg
Sephora
  • Mar 20 2013
  • Reply
If you really want some insider info I'm Melbourne just ride the lifts at 360 Collins or have a parma at the Mitre. Lots of recruiters with big mouths in those locations!
Keith De La Rue
  • Apr 21 2013
  • Reply
I got into a lift once when I worked for a major Telco. Two guys coming down from the "gods" level of the building were holding a very serious conversation in German. I very nearly said <> when they got out on the ground level, but though better of it. It would probably have been difficult to then explain that I actually didn't understand what they were saying, anyway.
    Keith De La Rue
    • Apr 21 2013
    • Reply
    Ha! The words in the brackets were "Auf Wiedersehen". This site doesn't like brackets, obviously...
David
  • Jun 28 2013
  • Reply
I can't help but think the company of the 2 guys you are describing came from (Sorry, I deleted this David. Don't think we should slander companies in public. Sure you understand. Cheers, Greg) . Sorry, but they have an arrogant aroma about them. Though they do well, It must be at the cost of a number of things.
Angelique
  • Sep 3 2015
  • Reply
Sound very similar to an experience I had on an aeroplane a couple of years ago... http://www.sportspeople.com.au/?ID=19121#confidential

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Greg is the founder of leading recruitment companies Firebrand Talent Search, People2People and Recruitment Solutions, and a current shareholder and director of several others, including Consult Recruitment. He is a regular keynote speaker worldwide and provides specialised advice for Recruitment, Professional Services & Social Media companies.





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